We’re doing a set of experiments; including confirmation runs, to analyze the effectiveness and harshness of various copper fouling solvents that are available to the sport shooter. The first test looks at aggressiveness and total dissolved copper capacity per unit volume of the solvent. The results were not entirely surprising.
For the first run we selcted WipeOut, Sweet’s 7.62 and Copper/Lead Destroyer from Modern Spartan Systems. We’ve already experimentally confirmed that Copper/Lead Destroyer will remove copper fouling and that it likes a longer time to do it than competitors, meaning it’s less aggressive. But how capable is it (how much copper can it hold)?
After normalizing the weights of 3 Barnes bullets we dropped them into test tubes with measured amounts of each solvent and let them soak. We didn’t knock off any oxide or other coating that the bullets had on them. We just dropped them in to the solvents. After 15 minutes there was effect enough for color changes in WipeOut and Sweet’s 7.62, though the changes were very slight. After 2 hours no real difference. After 2 days the WipeOut and Sweet’s bullets looked like they’d been hit with sandpaper and were showing rolling over of formerly sharp edges. The C/L-D bullet was seemingly unchanged on the surface other than darkening just a little.
24hr copper dissolution:
Wipe-Out: .2gr per 2tblsp in 24hhrs
Sweet’s: .2gr per 2x tblsp in 24hrs
MSS C/L D: .1gr per 2x tblsp in 24hrs
48hr copper dissolution:
Wipe-Out: .2gr per 2x tblsp in 48hhrs
Sweet’s: .2gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs
MSS C/L D: .1gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs
120hr copper dissolution:
Wipe-Out: .3gr per 2x tblsp in 48hhrs
Sweet’s: .4gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs
MSS C/L D: .1gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs
So we see that the Sweet’s kept on keeping on after an initial slow down. This is what I’d expect from something that’s really aggressive. Use up most of the reagents quickly and then continue until they’re all gone. I didn’t expect it to have such long legs. That’s what you might call “power and endurance”. WipeOut had the aggressiveness but not the endurance. C/L-D may have had great endurance or not, that didn’t show up. What showed is the carrying capacity it has for copper is pretty low and it’s not nearly as aggressive as the others. It does seem to like that 24hr soak though.
We’re re-running this test with a fresh set of Hornady GMX 180gr bullets in just a few days. We’ll post the results as soon as they’re ready.
Scope is almost 900 bucks off for what’s probably a messed up box or a simple return. These are fantastic scopes. EOTech did their homework.
Like you expected any different. This is exactly what you should expect when government starts paying people who don’t work for the government. This is what’s happened to Federally supplied education dollars, medicare dollars, highway maintenance dollars, post office dollars and everything else that’s been trusted to the populace.
Now add socialism which breeds not only corruption; because it denies the basic human instinct to compete for resources and come off better than your neighbor. Socialism breeds corruption because the state becomes the ultimate paymaster and what we all know is, nobody’s more fun to rip off than the paymaster.
People are all crooks. It’s a question of how crooked they are. Crooks are all people and there’s never been any question how crooked they are. Since they come from the same pile and show the same behaviors, we should consider that they’re actually the same.
Never trust anyone farther than you can see them and nobody will ever rip you off.
Wanna see how rough and tumble tough you really are? I mean, do you really want test your mettle?
Try this. Order the SEAL Meal at your local McDonald’s: 2 2 Filet-o-Fish sammiches (SEa), 2 McChicken sammiches (Air) and 2 McDoubles (Land). Sit in the restaurant and eat them all in one sitting. If you can do that and not die, you’re officially victorious against Mickie D’s feared SEAL Team 6.
You’ll prove your mettle in combat against the most vicious foes from the sea, the air and the land. You’ll power through unfathomable gastronomic toxicity whilst surrounded by human garbage locked in mortal combat with what some (uneducated) people call “food”as far as the eye can see. Even the great Genghis Khan would have had trouble stomaching this kind of unfettered brutality.
Do you have what it takes?
Send pics, videos and stories to firstname.lastname@example.org and I’ll post them here.
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1505755 900 bucks, not mine, don’t know the guy 3-18x MP8 MOA ret and turrets.
The motivation here was to test Modern Spartan Systems line of gun cleaning kit against established known quantities with proven performance. Their promise of no foul smell, lack of toxicity and some of the other claims they made caused me to get curious enough to do a Pepsi challenge for their whole cleaning system. This includes Accuracy Oil; which claims to increase velocity & cut group size & extend barrel life. It also includes their Carbon Destroyer and Copper/Lead Destroyer and their Carbon Destroyer.
I’ve already started long term testing of their Accuracy Oil’s claims at longer barrel life and improvements in velocity, group size and consistency. Those experiments are continuing and I’ve built an impressive data set so far with more coming in every week. In the meantime, the fundamental ability of the fouling removal products to perform like they say it will had not yet been established by any kind of usefully conducted experiment I could find. So, I’m doing it. I’ve already put the Carbon Destroyer up to the Pepsi challenge and it flat works. It’s pleasant enough to use and worked like a charm on everything from revolvers to pistols to high power modern rifles to black powder cartridge rifles. The way it worked on our set of Trapdoor Springfields was terrific. What about the big one though…COPPER!?! Let’s git’er done.
I’ve got enough barrels around with sufficient fouling, including some I’m entirely willing to destroy, to give a good test of effectiveness and side-effects. In the spirit of experimentation I set up the first round of testing with 3 barrels:
- Stock Glock 21 barrel. 1000’s of rounds since being cleaned.
- Savage 10 .308 24″ heavy barrel, >500 rounds since cleaning.
- Black Hole Weapons 26″ .223 barrel > 200 rounds since cleaning.
Cliff’s Notes: In short, MSS’s Copper/Lead Destroyer is very effective. Zero question about that.
More detailed findings and experimental procedure:
C/L-D not as strong as Sweet’s by a mile nor is it as strong as Wipe-Out as a copper remover but it’s a lot more pleasant to use than Sweet’s and less messy than Wipe-Out. This is about removing copper and copper fouling is hard to remove well without damaging the barrel steel. You either get mechanical action which is by definition damaging to the bore or you get chemical action which may be damaging to the bore. Bore damage can be dependent on the length of time of exposure to chemical agents and some of them are really nasty for everyone involved.
To start I took a G21 barrel that had been belled just in front of the chamber by a squib. It had previously had Carbon Destroyer run through it and then was soaked overnight (26 hours) in Copper/Lead Destroyer, hosed out and stored. I ran some Wipe-Out into it and gave it 15 minutes to soak and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch. Then I ran some Sweet’s in it and let that soak for 5 minutes and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch.
Ok, that’s the null result I was expecting. The barrel was clearly clean of copper to begin with but you don’t know the state of fouling before the 26 hour soak. Could have been a lot, could have been a little, could have been none for all you know, right?
Now to find the more interesting results. I took a factory Savage .308 Win barrel that I’d abused and not cleaned in literally years. It had at least a couple hundred rounds put through it before it got yanked and set aside. I started by running patch of Sweet’s through the barrel without running a brush through it, hoping that the carbon that stayed behind would protect some of the copper from the Sweet’s to serve as an indicator later. It came out with gooey gobs of blue on the patch with no soak at all, just applied and patched out. I immediately took the barrel outside and hosed it out for a solid couple minutes to keep the Sweet’s from finishing the job. I plugged the breech with a .45acp case and filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and gave it 2 hours to soak. After the soak I ran a patch through it a couple times (remember, no color change on the patches, C/L-D doesn’t do that) and then went and hosed it out. Now I needed to see if there was any copper still in there so I took the Wipe-Out and ran that in the barrel and gave it a 20 minute soak. After pushing a patch through what I found were traces of blue streaking on the patch and plenty of black and brown. Not much blue but enough to tell me that the carbon was in fact protecting the copper. There wasn’t enough copper coming out to make a good finish up to the experiment on that barrel so I reset the experiment by virtue of moving on to the .223 barrel.
The .223 barrel started with at least 200 rounds since the last even partial cleaning so it got a thorough carbon removal with Carbon Destroyer. When patches wrapped around a bore brush came out without any black or brown on them, I called that done. I put a fired case in the breech, closed the bolt and then filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and let it soak for 2 hours. Then I pushed a pair of patches through which came out not much different than they went in. Now to see if the C/L-D worked I ran a patch of sweet’s down the bore, gave it a solid 3 minutes to soak and pushed another patch though looking for color change and got NONE AT ALL. That was a null result I did not honestly expect. I expected to find some copper remaining, I mean Sweet’s is as aggressive as it gets. But no.
What’s that all mean? Leave the Copper/Lead Destroyer to soak a while and it works as thoroughly as Sweet’s or Wipe-Out. I really like using C/L-D way more than Sweet’s. I can’t even stand opening the bottle on that cat piss smelling Sweet’s. I actually really like Wipe-Out too and will continue to use it at the range because it’s super easy to deal with there. At home though, I think I’ve found my new cleaning product suite. All the chemicals I need are now finally not unpleasant.
Modern Spartan Systems – Copper/Lead Destroyer: No bad smell. A detergent-y smell similar to cold bluing solution is what it reminds me of most. The directions say you can leave in barrel safely for many hours, even overnight. I left it in a G21 barrel for 26 hours with no adverse affect noted. MUST use a carbon solvent prior to applying for it to be properly effective. Modern Spartan’s carbon remover works great. Getting C/L-D to stay wet in the barrel was another story. It dried quickly in my low humidity area. I eventually stuffed a fired case in the breech, stood the barrel up and filled the bore on rifles. On pistols it was easier to soak a narrow strip of paper towel in it and thread that down the bore and let it sit that way overnight. Directions say 3-5 minutes of soak. I got best results on heavy fouling after 2 hours. No color change on the patch so it’s a little hard to “know” when you’re done.
Wipe-Out: It’s got a smell but nothing like Sweet’s. Can leave in barrel overnight, no ammonia. It’s a foam that expands so some will end up in your action and it’ll probably drip out of the muzzle so, a little messy to use. Patch’s change color to blue if copper is present. Works on carbon and copper. Usually 15 minutes is more than sufficient as a soak time.
Sweet’s 7.62: Super strong ammonia smell. Do not leave in barrel longer than necessary, clean residue off skin and gun thoroughly immediately after use. Known to be hard on steel. Must use carbon remover prior for full effectiveness.
I have video and all that jazz but it’s not very interesting TV. It’s just me slowly, methodically and painfully boringly working out the surprisingly obvious. On the upside, MSS’s stuff works like a dream so far. I can officially endorse the Copper and Lead Destroyer and the Carbon Destroyer because I have proven beyond any doubt that they work as advertised.
Now about that Accuracy Oil….
We’ve taken over the lead in petroleum product exports from Saudi Arabia. We should now Join OPEC and seek to have our representative take over as Secretary General of OPEC. Despite the fact that they have an egalitarian one-country one-vote thing going, the fact of the matter is that the biggest producer ends up with a lot of influence and sway.
OPEC is an international cartel that routinely has used anti-competitive practices of production manipulation and price fixing in order to prevent any competition in the world of petroleum extraction and distribution. Worse, because of the economic realities, the current members of OPEC routinely run over their quotas which destroys the supply and demand reality of the price. They will often overburdern the market with oil supplies but because the price is determined by the market based on how much each country commits to producing (and no more than that) and not on how much it actually produces day to day there’a lack of parity to how any other market works which is supply vs. demand. That there is pure market manipulation. Consumers therefore are not able to get a fair shake and that has dangerous knock-on effects to the global economy.
If the USA were to join OPEC we would then be able to act as both a stabilizing force by forcing sanctions upon production cap cheats, implement enforcement and monitoring technologies that add transparency regarding production to the market to restore the supply vs. demand relationship that has been tossed aside and as a force to ultimately destroy OPEC the cartel from the inside whilst leaving OPEC the industry regulator to mature into a real thing.
As soon as they have to actually play by the rules instead of just saying they do, the member nations’ loyalty to OPEC will fracture and their own individual national interests come to dominate. They will soon find that they no longer have any benefit from membership and OPEC will collapse as a cartel and come to be what it should have been from the start, more of an industry regulating body similar to AMA and the bar associations of the states.
What do you think? Should the USA join OPEC?
See below for highlights. Click the link below if you’re in for the full read. You’re not missing anything either way.