6XC IMR-4350 115gr DTAC Load Data

I had an issue with H4350 availability but had a ton of IMR-4350 on hand. I searched and searched fot 6XC load data with 105+gr bullets but found exactly nothing. So I looked at 6CM and 6x47L data and burn speed, bulk density and energy content and made an educated guess. My guess worked better than I’d hoped.

The load below was safe in my rifle. Your mileage may vary. Start at least 2 grains lower and work up.

Case: Norma LRP
Bullet: 115gr DTAC
Powder: IMR4350
COAL: 2.74
Primer: Federal 210
Charge: 39.5gr
MV: 3050 avg
Barrel: 25.5″ Columbia River Arms 3-land polygonal

I see the question asked constantly about IMR-4350 vs H4350. Nobody ever has the answer for IMR4350, they just say, “go get H4350.” but that’s both glib and unhelpful. With an identical load of H4350 I get 2980fps with similar SD’s and an identical POI. Group size with both powders was identical, 5 shots into half an inch, 10 shots into 3/4″ from a bench.

Yes, H4350 is more temp stable but sometimes you just have to run what you brung. I personally think IMR-4350 might be a better choice for those that shoot in relatively stable environmental conditions (so most of us). Velocity is higher without any more sign of pressure than H4350 (I’m sure there is a little more but not enough to say grace over).

If you can’t figure out how much of a particular powder to use, sometimes you just have to use your head and a little judgement about your head’s abilities to make good judgements and, when appropriate, give it a go. I know that will run afoul of the sensibilities of a lot of people but you have to understand that modern BOLT ACTION guns are so ridiculously strong that you’re unlikely to damage the gun itself with a small error in burn rate,  energy content or charge weight. Semi-automatic platforms are very different and you can damage them substantially with a lot less of an error. In modern bolt aaction rifles it’s when the errors in burn rate, energy density or charge weight get really big that things come unglued suddenly. The line between safe and actually dangerous for a bolt action rifle is a lot wider than most people think. The line between within the pressure limits of brass cases is much narrower but that’s mitigated by all the safety elements designed in to rifles like gas venting ports.

Now you have the information anyway. IMR-4350 is a great powder choice for 6XC and other fast 6mm’s like 6x47L and 6CM with bullets from mid-weight to heavy for caliber. Don’t let the me too’s on web forums cock block you from reaching your goal. If you like. IMR4350, it’ll work just fine. In a case with ~40gr powder capacity, you should come down 2 grains from your H4350 load and work up.

As always with my load data, this is information not advice. You are responsible for your actions and your safety. I provided data as an EXAMPLE of what can/will happen.  It’s not a prediction or your results and you should exercise reasonable amounts of caution.

Ok. I’m A Monster. I Admit It.

This is a delicious, crunchity, creamy, sweet, chocolate-y packet of amazeballs. You’ll just have to hate me for being right after you try it.

Take one of these:

Then pull it apart.

Then get some Tillamook medium cheddar cheese and commit a crime against humanity.

Be sure you have sufficient ratios of ingredients.

OMG this is so yummy. I originally did it in an attempt to ruin someone on Oreo cookies and/or cheddar cheese. Not only did it backfire in the most interesting way but said individual was more put off by a very tiny glitter bomb.

In the end I was left with a new confection and not much more.

Insert “cool starry bra” jpg’s and pictures of your horrendous feet in the comments below.

Version 10.5 Released!

Thanks to my good friend KVK and user TurboF for pointing out some embarrassing errors so I could fix them. That comes as a patched minor version update. Version 10.5 is a patch release with fixes for MV, Secondary Data and other very minor tweaks. This is not a significant update but you might as well upgrade anyway. It’s free, right! Click the link below to download.


BallisticXLR 10.5 Download


Sale! BallisticXLR Ultra-Light Shooting Bag Fill

It’s here! It’s gear! Get used to it!

This is without a doubt the lightest material which is truly appropriate for shooting bag fill that’s available anywhere in the world. Cut the weight of your shooting support bags from several pounds to just a few ounces. We’re bringing it to you at a substantial savings.

3.5mm spheroid shape
Great Lock-In
Superior Shape Conformance
Slightly Compressible
Dust Free
Mold Resistant
Super Durable
~1lbs per cubic foot.

USA only! No international sales.

1 Liter BallisticXLR Ultra-Lite Bag Fill $10 shipped Buy It Now

4 Liters BallisticXLR Ultra-Lite Bag Fill $35 shipped Buy It Now

Shipping is via United States Postal Service.

Note: 1L is about enough for 1 toe support bag. 4L is approximately enough for 1 medium pillow. 8L is enough for 1 medium pillow + 3-4 toe bags. All boxes are filled with just a little bit extra just in case.

From Practical To Prank-tical – The Evolution Of The Hot Dog Gun

The rifle I initially called Project Gabriel has gone by many other names over its life. Most people currently refer to it as “The Hot Dog Gun”. The nicknames it gets are representative of the external appearance and are mostly arrived at through references made by other people who’ve seen it. The “project” name stays with the receiver forever and never changes so the rifle is still “Project Gabriel” even though the nickname might change occasionally. At least every time I change barrels anyway.

The poor thing has gone through many iterations of appearance. I suspect many of you will do or have done or are in the process of going through the same iterative appearance and accessory changing on one of your rifles even if for different reasons. I maintain finishes on my rifles that are appropriate to what I want the finish to do, not necessarily what I want the rifle to do. If I want it to merely protect the metal then whatever finish it came in is usually OK. What about those times when I want the appearance of the rifle to do more than protect the metal/wood/plastic from the sun / water / etc…? Well, then I am likely to get creative about things.

Black plastic non-accustock and as unimpressive looking as you can get.

Many years ago when I first got the Savage 10FP-SR it was bone stock. I traded into it for a well used Browning BAR in 7mm Remington Magnum. The barrel on that rifle had been treated to a very little bit of target shooting so it hadn’t been burned up and I quite liked it because it really soaked up the recoil from 7mm RemMag full power hunting loads. The rifle itself was 1.5-2MOA rifle on its best day so it wasn’t a tack driver. It was a decent deer killer. As much as I liked it, I had stopped hunting in California almost as soon as I’d picked up the BAR. It only saw a couple trips with me. I’d gotten the BAR on trade for God only knows what; I certainly don’t recall. The BAR was no longer the rifle I needed so it went out and the Savage 10FPSR that would be known by so many names came in the door. When I got it it was bone stock. It didn’t even have scope mounts included in the trade.

The first thing I did was to paint the stock in a light desert sand color and drop a 20MOA rail, a home-made Kydex cheek piece, a SWFA 16x42mm Super Sniper scope and a Barret M468 muzzle brake that I’d opened up the spout on to .330″ from .308″. It was suitable enough to get out and get shooting but it was not soft shooting by any stretch. The brake was only minimally effective.  It was meant as a brake for Barret M4’s in 6.8SPC and I doubt it did much there. My modification let it work on a .308Win until I could afford a decent JP Enterprises Tactical Brake.

The special lady of a good friend ponied up to Project Gabriel in a Caldwell Lead Sled. She was absolutely hammering 500m targets with it immediately. She’s from East Africa and had never thought of firearms as recreation. In her country there were no recreational uses of guns to speak of and she was quite enamored with the sport when she found out it was possible to shoot for fun.

At about the same time as the picture above was taken, I had 3x US Optics ST-10 10x37mm scopes on the way as well as an MDT LSS chassis and some Magpul bits for the butt and pistol grip. The rifle was then taken to the 2015 California State Championships for Metallic Silhouette and I competed with it. This is exactly the wrong combo for that sport. Most people were using much lighter recoiling cartridges than a .308Win with 168’s at 2700fps. Fast 6mm’s and 6.5mm’s were already ruling the roost. I did not lose as I had expected to. I came in 2nd to last which I was excited about being as that was my first match shooting offhand at long range. Here’s a little video excerpt from that match. I was the only guy with a tactical rifle and you can see it kicking the snot out of me.

Right after that match I went and got myself an MDT LSS stock chassis and put together the core configuration that the rifle still has to this day. In addition to the LSS I put a Magpul MOE grip and Magpul MOE butt stock and cheek riser on it and went with Accurate Mag steel 10rd magazines. It had started to take on a “tacti-cool” appearance which I wasn’t necessarily avoiding. In fact, I wanted it to be tacti-cool because who didn’t at the time. Now we had what could be called the optimal .308 combination for a rugged, reliable, accurate and deadly package for prone and obstacle shooting (but not offhand) that’s more or less limited to somewhere near 1000yrds of useful range. At the time hitting a 2MOA target 1000yrds was still considered to be nearly unobtanium by the masses. People had a strange idea of how far that actually is and seemingly figured it was on the Moon.

Add an LSS chassis with Magpul furniture and a US Optics ST-10 and it starts looking like a serious business rifle. The Burris Signature Series rings put the 20MOA in so the 20MOA rail got pulled off.

When a little money came my way by virtue of me quitting my job which cashed out my saved up vacation pay, I used some of the money to upgrade my scope to a US Optics ER-25 which turned out to be a major fiasco. US Optics reputation for optical quality, durability and dead-nuts click values were legendary. It’s ability to execute on their quality standards was, however, not quite so legendary. When you got a good one, it was a work of art. When you didn’t it was an expensive disappointment and an expensive shipping/insurance hassle that should never have happened.

Re-Add the 20MOA rail, the 3/4″ MOE cheek riser and an ER-25 optic. The optic was a disappointment in quality control and it was simply enormous. I still love USO scopes but not that specific USO scope.

US Optics had just been sold and before the sale of the company they squirted OODLES of ER-25’s out of the door which were not all up to USO’s quality standards. I sent mine back 3 times before they got it right and then I said, “Screw it!” and ditched the ER-25 it for a Vortex Razor 2 4.5-27x56mm.

What ever happened to the .308Win barrel that came on the gun? It’s sitting on a shelf with a bunch of other barrels sticking out like a sore thumb. This Texas coral snake pattern was an experiment to see if the concept could work in Cerakote. It worked out well enough with rattle can that I got a similar pattern, a Sonoran coral snake pattern, done in Cerakote on my .223 Mossberg MVP.

At the same time as the scope upgrade I’d decided that .308’s kick too hard for PRS competition, for me at least, and so I ordered a new 26″ barrel from Black Hole Weapons in .243 Ackley Improved and stuck a JP Enterprises tactical brake on it. No recoil in that combo despite running 115gr DTAC’s out at 3200fps. You could put the butt stock on your nose and fire it and not get a bloody nose. The Razor was really quite good in almost every way. Almost. The turret knobs attach with pinch screws that you’re not supposed to over-tighten but which if you don’t get tight enough will eventually work themselves loose. There’s a fine line between the two in my experience. It happened to me in a match and at the bench and that was enough to cause me to rethink my choice in optics. I decided that since new stuff was only disappointing me that I’d drop back to some older models of optic which had proven themselves.

Hot Dog Gun before it was even painted. Getting some early long range testing done. The Vortex Razor 2 was MOSTLY great. You can see the Cerakote’d Mossberg MVP .223 with Sonoran coral snake pattern on the barrel and its own Vortex Razor 2 3-18x50mm. Both Razors have since been replaced by SN3 US Optics 3.8-22x’s

At the same time, I was noticing that a lot of competitors had their rifles in LSS stocks in flat dark earth color and it was getting hard to tell them apart. As well, I wanted to do what we’d done in metallic silhouette competition which was to set up a garishly finished rifle which would accomplish the dual purpose of being very distinctive and getting inside the heads of other competitors. The more garish the better as it would have the other shooters spinning criticism of my rifle in their heads instead of focusing on the match. It is a strategy that has worked well for years and is not entirely uncommon. So, enter the Dodger Dog / Hot Dog gun. I gave it a paint job that looked like a hot dog with mustard and relish on a bun. It proved very effective in being easy as hell to spot on a rack full of otherwise similarly set up rifles.

The Hot Dog Gun’s barreled action next to the spare .308Win barrel and the partially painted stock. The Hot Dog got a lot of attention at matches and nobody ever confused it with their rifle.

While I was at it I had also set up my Mossberg MVP .223 as a Sonoran Coral Snake and my .308Win barrel got painted to resemble a Texas Coral Snake. All of the above had many other competitors commenting snidely which was the goal. They stopped talking when their scores were getting beaten by the scores coming out of The Hot Dog Gun. They were even more surprised when one of my students borrowed my rifle and had me call all of his drops, drifts and holds and he won the match. No, I’m not the best shooter in the world. I’m a better spotter than I am a shooter. I am however a very consistently decent shooter and when I’m on the firing line I find it very easy to be tightly focused. Other competitors mind game in their own ways and I don’t complain. So when I mind game other competitors via a garish and silly paint job, they reciprocate and respond with humor, good will and a desire to beat me. Which means, I’m in their head. Mission accomplished.

Gabriel in back with .243AI barrel and Razor 2 optic. Mossberg MVP .223 in front with coral snake barrel and Razor 2 optic.

I ran the Hot Dog Gun for about 2 years which was the life span of my .243AI barrel. After 1500 rounds it got pulled so that I didn’t have a surprise during a match. It still shoots well but the throat has gotten quite long and it likes to toss a flyer now and then now. In the last 2 years I also started using BipodEXT from Accuracy Solutions to extend my bipod location forward of my muzzle for greater stability. Boy that really worked! During the last year or so I finally found a US Optics SN3 3.8-22x58mm scope that had all the coolest options on it: MTC (more tactile clicks at 1mil intervals), objective parallax adjustment, CAPRC reticle, sunshade with ARD, mil/mil, EREK knob, red illumination and a 34mm tube. I also got 2 other 3.8-22x’s with 44mm objectives, 1 in MOA with a 35mm tube and 1 in mils with a 34mm tube. My US Optics collection was finally full and the rifle got a XLR Industries Tactical butt stock as well as being switched to Accu-Tac bipods from Harris bipods.

Pro PRS shooter Nico Detour seemed to approve of the Hot Dog Gun.

I’ve set up my latest barrel in a new chambering, 6XC, with a tight neck custom chamber. The new barrel is installed and this time sports no brake. Brakes are just loud when your rifle barely recoils to begin with. With the new barrel comes a new paint job. I’d thought about doing a My Little Pony theme but in the end it really didn’t work so the idea perished. Oh what to do for a concept. Google to the rescue.

I’m not into comic books, I’m unaware of the difference between Marvel and DC. I do gather there’s a difference, I just don’t know or care to know what it is. Nor even have I seen much of the movies or TV series’ that have been made to capitalize on the whole genre. What I do know and like is that those comic book heroes and anti-heroes usually are armed and they’re armed with creatively designed and garishly finished weapons. I only needed to pick one. I thought about Punisher but that’s been played out. I Google’d and Google’d looking for themes and found out that I am not forward looking, exceedingly visually creative or prone to coming up with original ideas so I had to adapt from inspiring ideas that already exist. Deadpool seemed like a good theme to go with. It’s basically graffiti and red paint on a black substrate so it’s easy to pull off and if it gets scuffed that will only add to the effect.

So here is where we have arrived. I’ve still yet to do any of the graffiti but I have a set of ideas, including “chimichanga” that will add accents here and there. On the upside, the scope being black really worked and didn’t need any accent paint. I don’t paint my US Optics scopes. 😉

Comment below and tell us what you think!


Knife Making For Everyone

You can do it. What you need is a bench vise, some clamps, epoxy, wood, a sanding roll, a drill, boiled linseed oil, sandpaper, steel wool. Not necessarily in that order. I clamp my scales in place then use a sanding roll to shape them to match the tang of the blade. Then it’s down to shaping and polishing. There are some amazing blade makers here in the USA. I like Idaho Forge and Alabama Damascus. For grip material, really look into burls but avoid spalted wood. Burls are stupid strong. Spalts are stupid weak. See below for examples of some of the knives I’ve made. I don’t use rivets on my knives. The epoxy that fits the scales to the tang is stronger than the tang or the wood so you pretty much have to destroy the knife to make the handles come off.

Deer antler & blued Planer Blade, burled Amboyna & Idaho Forge damascus, Burled Mesquite and Alabama Damascus polished damascus.
Alabama Damascus damascus & burled Thuya
Idaho Forge damascus & burled Thuya
Top 2 are burled Thuya and Idaho Forge damascus, middle burled mesquite & polished damascus (see above), burled Thuya & Idaho Forge damascus, Burled Amboyna & Idaho Forge damascus

Please Participate! Pick My Piece’s Putative Pony Paint Pattern.

No, this is not a joke. I want actual opinions. Note that your honest opinion might come back to bite you in the butt because I will 100% give you credit if you give me any really sparkly ideas. I’m actually going to do this to one of my actual match rifles.
Why? Well garish guns get in the heads of other competitors, I never mistake my rifle for anyone else’s and it keeps competitor mitts off my rifles… they don’t want to be associated with something so garish. The rifle I’m doing this to was already painted like a Texas coral snake in one iteration and a hot dog with mustard and relish in another iteration. I shit you not. Check it out.
Why might you think it might be a joke? Well I’m doing a My Little Pony rifle this time. I tried to do a Megaman rifle but it just didn’t work. 8 bit graphics kinda suck.
I could do the old woodland pattern:
Or use silhouettes for a DIY rattle-can camo job and go with a lavender background color and gold/pink/blue silhouettes crossed up in the usual camo way but also add a top coat of glitter and then clear coat over the top.
Or just go whole hog and do something similar to the Glambo rifle but with Pinky Pie or Rainbow Dash.
If I do Pinky Pie then that would be what… “Pinky Die” with a pink pony tail and pink wig on the scope?
Or do I do Rainbow Dash and call it “Painbow Dash” or maybe “Rainbow Path” or “Rainbow Trajectory”?
Vote your conscience and spread the word. The more votes we get the more inclined I am to comply with your more hideous suggestions.

Modern Spartan Systems Pepsi Challenge Pt. 3 – Copper Solvent Aggressiveness

We’re doing a set of experiments; including confirmation runs, to analyze the effectiveness and harshness of various copper fouling solvents that are available to the sport shooter. The first test looks at aggressiveness and total dissolved copper capacity per unit volume of the solvent. The results were not entirely surprising.

For the first run we selcted WipeOut, Sweet’s 7.62 and Copper/Lead Destroyer from Modern Spartan Systems. We’ve already experimentally confirmed that Copper/Lead Destroyer will remove copper fouling and that it likes a longer time to do it than competitors, meaning it’s less aggressive. But how capable is it (how much copper can it hold)?

We’re soakin. Yessiree. Dissolving. What a sight to see.

After normalizing the weights of 3 Barnes bullets we dropped them into test tubes with measured amounts of each solvent and let them soak. We didn’t knock off any oxide or other coating that the bullets had on them. We just dropped them in to the solvents. After 15 minutes there was effect enough for color changes in WipeOut and Sweet’s 7.62, though the changes were very slight. After 2 hours no real difference. After 2 days the WipeOut and Sweet’s bullets looked like they’d been hit with sandpaper and were showing rolling over of formerly sharp edges. The C/L-D bullet was seemingly unchanged on the surface other than darkening just a little.

WipeOut, Sweet’s 7.62, Copper/Lead Destroyer, bullets after 5 days soaking. The Sweet’s bullet looks like 5 miles of dirt road.

24hr copper dissolution:
Wipe-Out: .2gr per 2tblsp in 24hhrs
Sweet’s: .2gr per 2x tblsp in 24hrs
MSS C/L D: .1gr per 2x tblsp in 24hrs

48hr copper dissolution:
Wipe-Out: .2gr per 2x tblsp in 48hhrs
Sweet’s: .2gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs
MSS C/L D: .1gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs

120hr copper dissolution:
Wipe-Out: .3gr per 2x tblsp in 48hhrs
Sweet’s: .4gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs
MSS C/L D: .1gr per 2x tblsp in 48hrs

So we see that the Sweet’s kept on keeping on after an initial slow down. This is what I’d expect from something that’s really aggressive. Use up most of the reagents quickly and then continue until they’re all gone. I didn’t expect it to have such long legs. That’s what you might call “power and endurance”. WipeOut had the aggressiveness but not the endurance. C/L-D may have had great endurance or not, that didn’t show up. What showed is the carrying capacity it has for copper is pretty low and it’s not nearly as aggressive as the others. It does seem to like that 24hr soak though.

We’re re-running this test with a fresh set of Hornady GMX 180gr bullets in just a few days. We’ll post the results as soon as they’re ready.

Copper Remover Thrash: Modern Spartan Systems vs. Sweet’s 7.62 vs. Wipe-Out

The motivation here was to test Modern Spartan Systems line of gun cleaning kit against established known quantities with proven performance. Their promise of no foul smell, lack of toxicity and some of the other claims they made caused me to get curious enough to do a Pepsi challenge for their whole cleaning system. This includes Accuracy Oil; which claims to increase velocity & cut group size & extend barrel life. It also includes their Carbon Destroyer and Copper/Lead Destroyer and their Carbon Destroyer.

I’ve already started long term testing of their Accuracy Oil’s claims at longer barrel life and improvements in velocity, group size and consistency. Those experiments are continuing and I’ve built an impressive data set so far with more coming in every week. In the meantime, the fundamental ability of the fouling removal products to perform like they say it will had not yet been established by any kind of usefully conducted experiment I could find. So, I’m doing it. I’ve already put the Carbon Destroyer up to the Pepsi challenge and it flat works. It’s pleasant enough to use and worked like a charm on everything from revolvers to pistols to high power modern rifles to black powder cartridge rifles. The way it worked on our set of Trapdoor Springfields was terrific. What about the big one though…COPPER!?! Let’s git’er done.

I’ve got enough barrels around with sufficient fouling, including some I’m entirely willing to destroy, to give a good test of effectiveness and side-effects. In the spirit of experimentation I set up the first round of testing with 3 barrels:

  • Stock Glock 21 barrel. 1000’s of rounds since being cleaned.
  • Savage 10 .308 24″ heavy barrel, >500 rounds since cleaning.
  • Black Hole Weapons 26″ .223 barrel > 200 rounds since cleaning.

Cliff’s Notes: In short, MSS’s Copper/Lead Destroyer is very effective. Zero question about that.

More detailed findings and experimental procedure:
C/L-D not as strong as Sweet’s by a mile nor is it as strong as Wipe-Out as a copper remover but it’s a lot more pleasant to use than Sweet’s and less messy than Wipe-Out. This is about removing copper and copper fouling is hard to remove well without damaging the barrel steel. You either get mechanical action which is by definition damaging to the bore or you get chemical action which may be damaging to the bore. Bore damage can be dependent on the length of time of exposure to chemical agents and some of them are really nasty for everyone involved.

To start I took a G21 barrel that had been belled just in front of the chamber by a squib. It had previously had Carbon Destroyer run through it and then was soaked overnight (26 hours) in Copper/Lead Destroyer, hosed out and stored. I ran some Wipe-Out into it and gave it 15 minutes to soak and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch. Then I ran some Sweet’s in it and let that soak for 5 minutes and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch.

Ok, that’s the null result I was expecting. The barrel was clearly clean of copper to begin with but you don’t know the state of fouling before the 26 hour soak. Could have been a lot, could have been a little, could have been none for all you know, right?

Now to find the more interesting results. I took a factory Savage .308 Win barrel that I’d abused and not cleaned in literally years. It had at least a couple hundred rounds put through it before it got yanked and set aside. I started by running patch of Sweet’s through the barrel without running a brush through it, hoping that the carbon that stayed behind would protect some of the copper from the Sweet’s to serve as an indicator later. It came out with gooey gobs of blue on the patch with no soak at all, just applied and patched out. I immediately took the barrel outside and hosed it out for a solid couple minutes to keep the Sweet’s from finishing the job. I plugged the breech with a .45acp case and filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and gave it 2 hours to soak. After the soak I ran a patch through it a couple times (remember, no color change on the patches, C/L-D doesn’t do that) and then went and hosed it out. Now I needed to see if there was any copper still in there so I took the Wipe-Out and ran that in the barrel and gave it a 20 minute soak. After pushing a patch through what I found were traces of blue streaking on the patch and plenty of black and brown. Not much blue but enough to tell me that the carbon was in fact protecting the copper. There wasn’t enough copper coming out to make a good finish up to the experiment on that barrel so I reset the experiment by virtue of moving on to the .223 barrel.

The .223 barrel started with at least 200 rounds since the last even partial cleaning so it got a thorough carbon removal with Carbon Destroyer. When patches wrapped around a bore brush came out without any black or brown on them, I called that done. I put a fired case in the breech, closed the bolt and then filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and let it soak for 2 hours. Then I pushed a pair of patches through which came out not much different than they went in. Now to see if the C/L-D worked I ran a patch of sweet’s down the bore, gave it a solid 3 minutes to soak and pushed another patch though looking for color change and got NONE AT ALL. That was a null result I did not honestly expect. I expected to find some copper remaining, I mean Sweet’s is as aggressive as it gets. But no.

What’s that all mean? Leave the Copper/Lead Destroyer to soak a while and it works as thoroughly as Sweet’s or Wipe-Out. I really like using C/L-D way more than Sweet’s. I can’t even stand opening the bottle on that cat piss smelling Sweet’s. I actually really like Wipe-Out too and will continue to use it at the range because it’s super easy to deal with there. At home though, I think I’ve found my new cleaning product suite. All the chemicals I need are now finally not unpleasant.

Modern Spartan Systems – Copper/Lead Destroyer: No bad smell. A detergent-y smell similar to cold bluing solution is what it reminds me of most. The directions say you can leave in barrel safely for many hours, even overnight. I left it in a G21 barrel for 26 hours with no adverse affect noted. MUST use a carbon solvent prior to applying for it to be properly effective. Modern Spartan’s carbon remover works great. Getting C/L-D to stay wet in the barrel was another story. It dried quickly in my low humidity area. I eventually stuffed a fired case in the breech, stood the barrel up and filled the bore on rifles. On pistols it was easier to soak a narrow strip of paper towel in it and thread that down the bore and let it sit that way overnight. Directions say 3-5 minutes of soak. I got best results on heavy fouling after 2 hours. No color change on the patch so it’s a little hard to “know” when you’re done.

Wipe-Out: It’s got a smell but nothing like Sweet’s. Can leave in barrel overnight, no ammonia. It’s a foam that expands so some will end up in your action and it’ll probably drip out of the muzzle so, a little messy to use. Patch’s change color to blue if copper is present. Works on carbon and copper. Usually 15 minutes is more than sufficient as a soak time.

Sweet’s 7.62: Super strong ammonia smell. Do not leave in barrel longer than necessary, clean residue off skin and gun thoroughly immediately after use. Known to be hard on steel. Must use carbon remover prior for full effectiveness.

I have video and all that jazz but it’s not very interesting TV. It’s just me slowly, methodically and painfully boringly working out the surprisingly obvious. On the upside, MSS’s stuff works like a dream so far. I can officially endorse the Copper and Lead Destroyer and the Carbon Destroyer because I have proven beyond any doubt that they work as advertised.

Now about that Accuracy Oil….

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