If you read the study you find out that the answer is yes. So no surprises were had and the Maximegalon Institute for Slowly and Painfully Working Out the Surprisingly Obvious (MISPWOSO).
The motivation here was to test Modern Spartan Systems line of gun cleaning kit against established known quantities with proven performance. Their promise of no foul smell, lack of toxicity and some of the other claims they made caused me to get curious enough to do a Pepsi challenge for their whole cleaning system. This includes Accuracy Oil; which claims to increase velocity & cut group size & extend barrel life. It also includes their Carbon Destroyer and Copper/Lead Destroyer and their Carbon Destroyer.
I’ve already started long term testing of their Accuracy Oil’s claims at longer barrel life and improvements in velocity, group size and consistency. Those experiments are continuing and I’ve built an impressive data set so far with more coming in every week. In the meantime, the fundamental ability of the fouling removal products to perform like they say it will had not yet been established by any kind of usefully conducted experiment I could find. So, I’m doing it. I’ve already put the Carbon Destroyer up to the Pepsi challenge and it flat works. It’s pleasant enough to use and worked like a charm on everything from revolvers to pistols to high power modern rifles to black powder cartridge rifles. The way it worked on our set of Trapdoor Springfields was terrific. What about the big one though…COPPER!?! Let’s git’er done.
I’ve got enough barrels around with sufficient fouling, including some I’m entirely willing to destroy, to give a good test of effectiveness and side-effects. In the spirit of experimentation I set up the first round of testing with 3 barrels:
- Stock Glock 21 barrel. 1000’s of rounds since being cleaned.
- Savage 10 .308 24″ heavy barrel, >500 rounds since cleaning.
- Black Hole Weapons 26″ .223 barrel > 200 rounds since cleaning.
Cliff’s Notes: In short, MSS’s Copper/Lead Destroyer is very effective. Zero question about that.
More detailed findings and experimental procedure:
C/L-D not as strong as Sweet’s by a mile nor is it as strong as Wipe-Out as a copper remover but it’s a lot more pleasant to use than Sweet’s and less messy than Wipe-Out. This is about removing copper and copper fouling is hard to remove well without damaging the barrel steel. You either get mechanical action which is by definition damaging to the bore or you get chemical action which may be damaging to the bore. Bore damage can be dependent on the length of time of exposure to chemical agents and some of them are really nasty for everyone involved.
To start I took a G21 barrel that had been belled just in front of the chamber by a squib. It had previously had Carbon Destroyer run through it and then was soaked overnight (26 hours) in Copper/Lead Destroyer, hosed out and stored. I ran some Wipe-Out into it and gave it 15 minutes to soak and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch. Then I ran some Sweet’s in it and let that soak for 5 minutes and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch.
Ok, that’s the null result I was expecting. The barrel was clearly clean of copper to begin with but you don’t know the state of fouling before the 26 hour soak. Could have been a lot, could have been a little, could have been none for all you know, right?
Now to find the more interesting results. I took a factory Savage .308 Win barrel that I’d abused and not cleaned in literally years. It had at least a couple hundred rounds put through it before it got yanked and set aside. I started by running patch of Sweet’s through the barrel without running a brush through it, hoping that the carbon that stayed behind would protect some of the copper from the Sweet’s to serve as an indicator later. It came out with gooey gobs of blue on the patch with no soak at all, just applied and patched out. I immediately took the barrel outside and hosed it out for a solid couple minutes to keep the Sweet’s from finishing the job. I plugged the breech with a .45acp case and filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and gave it 2 hours to soak. After the soak I ran a patch through it a couple times (remember, no color change on the patches, C/L-D doesn’t do that) and then went and hosed it out. Now I needed to see if there was any copper still in there so I took the Wipe-Out and ran that in the barrel and gave it a 20 minute soak. After pushing a patch through what I found were traces of blue streaking on the patch and plenty of black and brown. Not much blue but enough to tell me that the carbon was in fact protecting the copper. There wasn’t enough copper coming out to make a good finish up to the experiment on that barrel so I reset the experiment by virtue of moving on to the .223 barrel.
The .223 barrel started with at least 200 rounds since the last even partial cleaning so it got a thorough carbon removal with Carbon Destroyer. When patches wrapped around a bore brush came out without any black or brown on them, I called that done. I put a fired case in the breech, closed the bolt and then filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and let it soak for 2 hours. Then I pushed a pair of patches through which came out not much different than they went in. Now to see if the C/L-D worked I ran a patch of sweet’s down the bore, gave it a solid 3 minutes to soak and pushed another patch though looking for color change and got NONE AT ALL. That was a null result I did not honestly expect. I expected to find some copper remaining, I mean Sweet’s is as aggressive as it gets. But no.
What’s that all mean? Leave the Copper/Lead Destroyer to soak a while and it works as thoroughly as Sweet’s or Wipe-Out. I really like using C/L-D way more than Sweet’s. I can’t even stand opening the bottle on that cat piss smelling Sweet’s. I actually really like Wipe-Out too and will continue to use it at the range because it’s super easy to deal with there. At home though, I think I’ve found my new cleaning product suite. All the chemicals I need are now finally not unpleasant.
Modern Spartan Systems – Copper/Lead Destroyer: No bad smell. A detergent-y smell similar to cold bluing solution is what it reminds me of most. The directions say you can leave in barrel safely for many hours, even overnight. I left it in a G21 barrel for 26 hours with no adverse affect noted. MUST use a carbon solvent prior to applying for it to be properly effective. Modern Spartan’s carbon remover works great. Getting C/L-D to stay wet in the barrel was another story. It dried quickly in my low humidity area. I eventually stuffed a fired case in the breech, stood the barrel up and filled the bore on rifles. On pistols it was easier to soak a narrow strip of paper towel in it and thread that down the bore and let it sit that way overnight. Directions say 3-5 minutes of soak. I got best results on heavy fouling after 2 hours. No color change on the patch so it’s a little hard to “know” when you’re done.
Wipe-Out: It’s got a smell but nothing like Sweet’s. Can leave in barrel overnight, no ammonia. It’s a foam that expands so some will end up in your action and it’ll probably drip out of the muzzle so, a little messy to use. Patch’s change color to blue if copper is present. Works on carbon and copper. Usually 15 minutes is more than sufficient as a soak time.
Sweet’s 7.62: Super strong ammonia smell. Do not leave in barrel longer than necessary, clean residue off skin and gun thoroughly immediately after use. Known to be hard on steel. Must use carbon remover prior for full effectiveness.
I have video and all that jazz but it’s not very interesting TV. It’s just me slowly, methodically and painfully boringly working out the surprisingly obvious. On the upside, MSS’s stuff works like a dream so far. I can officially endorse the Copper and Lead Destroyer and the Carbon Destroyer because I have proven beyond any doubt that they work as advertised.
Now about that Accuracy Oil….
You know plenty about the New Zealand shooting except you probably are looking for the video and can’t find it. Everyone wants to pull shit down so the people can’t see. That’s not how information works. You can’t stop the signal so, here you go!
This is extremely graphic. I don’t have this here to glorify anything. The guy is a madman and a murderer. Madmen are just like everyone else, they have a breaking point. Aussies and Kiwi’s have been mass importing foreigners whom they refuse to push assimilation with so you end up with a fractured society. Fractures in diverse societies lead to slaughter. Slaughter comes from madmen responding to societal fracture. That’s how history has always played out. Return to assimilation, reduce the rate of importation, quit pandering to medieval Arabian tribalism and you might see things peel back to a less militant level.
Doctor, heal thyself!
You’ll have to download it. Nobody will host it.
I’ll just leave this here. You decide for you.
Nothing about them surprises me. Primitiveness of culture, undisciplined minds, unstinting ability to believe promiscuously and all of that supported and exhorted by a religion which was created by and because a guy couldn’t stop pissing off his neighbors and had a penchant for very little girls. It’s a culture of perversion.
We’ve taken over the lead in petroleum product exports from Saudi Arabia. We should now Join OPEC and seek to have our representative take over as Secretary General of OPEC. Despite the fact that they have an egalitarian one-country one-vote thing going, the fact of the matter is that the biggest producer ends up with a lot of influence and sway.
OPEC is an international cartel that routinely has used anti-competitive practices of production manipulation and price fixing in order to prevent any competition in the world of petroleum extraction and distribution. Worse, because of the economic realities, the current members of OPEC routinely run over their quotas which destroys the supply and demand reality of the price. They will often overburdern the market with oil supplies but because the price is determined by the market based on how much each country commits to producing (and no more than that) and not on how much it actually produces day to day there’a lack of parity to how any other market works which is supply vs. demand. That there is pure market manipulation. Consumers therefore are not able to get a fair shake and that has dangerous knock-on effects to the global economy.
If the USA were to join OPEC we would then be able to act as both a stabilizing force by forcing sanctions upon production cap cheats, implement enforcement and monitoring technologies that add transparency regarding production to the market to restore the supply vs. demand relationship that has been tossed aside and as a force to ultimately destroy OPEC the cartel from the inside whilst leaving OPEC the industry regulator to mature into a real thing.
As soon as they have to actually play by the rules instead of just saying they do, the member nations’ loyalty to OPEC will fracture and their own individual national interests come to dominate. They will soon find that they no longer have any benefit from membership and OPEC will collapse as a cartel and come to be what it should have been from the start, more of an industry regulating body similar to AMA and the bar associations of the states.
What do you think? Should the USA join OPEC?
I’m certain that every second of this video shows crimes against humanity. The most enlightening comment on the video is also the scariest. Watch first then scroll down for that gem of a quote.
“if you check the restaurants twitter, the ingredients are macaroni and cheese, mayonnaise, canned corn, and a pinch of olives. They also have a dessert pizza that has chocolate sauce, gum drops, and twizzlers. I honestly think Seal Team 6 killed the wrong dude… they need to come back and wack this pizza chef for his crimes against humanity.”
Well, it happened on a school campus right?
Yep, it’s free again. Download links are on the home page now.
Those that ponied up the 10 bucks, thank you for your patronage!
It’s been a pay app for a year and it really was more of a hassle than it was worth. All tolled, I made $810 in gross revenues from unsupported downloads over 11 months. I have put well over 4000 hours in the spreadsheet since 2013 and a hundred or so in the setup of the commercial operation. That comes out to $.20/hour gross for the time I have in developing it. But wait! There’s more. I sold $400 worth of support entitlements. I’ve burned 60 hours of time providing technical support to those entitlement holders, debugging user errors and diagnosing sources of error. That’s a whopping $6.66/hr for support services. Support hours were directly subtracted from my normal work hours as they were done during the time I’d normally be working my day job but couldn’t. That means it actually cost me about $4000 to provide support for which I received $400. Not economically viable.
Hard expenses were $196 for domain/certificate/e-commerce site, $50 for logos and other artwork, $100 for audio files. 810 – 196 – 100 – 50 = $464 or about $.12/hr. Count in the $4000 loss of income to my day job and I actually paid about $.78/hr for the privilege of doing all that work. By any economic measure that’s totally not worth it.
I originally tried to take what is in fact a giant pain in the ass for the average guy and make it into something really easy. I forgot that people are not all equipped with things like computer literacy or math skills or common sense in the same proportions and so there’s no such thing as making it easy for the average guy because there’s no average guy. I did make it as easy as it’s going to be and as perfected as you’ll ever find.
I will continue provide support for those that bought support but I will not sell any more support entitlements. I will continue to post blog entries but I’ve put future development off to one side.