If you read the study you find out that the answer is yes. So no surprises were had and the Maximegalon Institute for Slowly and Painfully Working Out the Surprisingly Obvious (MISPWOSO).
The motivation here was to test Modern Spartan Systems line of gun cleaning kit against established known quantities with proven performance. Their promise of no foul smell, lack of toxicity and some of the other claims they made caused me to get curious enough to do a Pepsi challenge for their whole cleaning system. This includes Accuracy Oil; which claims to increase velocity & cut group size & extend barrel life. It also includes their Carbon Destroyer and Copper/Lead Destroyer and their Carbon Destroyer.
I’ve already started long term testing of their Accuracy Oil’s claims at longer barrel life and improvements in velocity, group size and consistency. Those experiments are continuing and I’ve built an impressive data set so far with more coming in every week. In the meantime, the fundamental ability of the fouling removal products to perform like they say it will had not yet been established by any kind of usefully conducted experiment I could find. So, I’m doing it. I’ve already put the Carbon Destroyer up to the Pepsi challenge and it flat works. It’s pleasant enough to use and worked like a charm on everything from revolvers to pistols to high power modern rifles to black powder cartridge rifles. The way it worked on our set of Trapdoor Springfields was terrific. What about the big one though…COPPER!?! Let’s git’er done.
I’ve got enough barrels around with sufficient fouling, including some I’m entirely willing to destroy, to give a good test of effectiveness and side-effects. In the spirit of experimentation I set up the first round of testing with 3 barrels:
- Stock Glock 21 barrel. 1000’s of rounds since being cleaned.
- Savage 10 .308 24″ heavy barrel, >500 rounds since cleaning.
- Black Hole Weapons 26″ .223 barrel > 200 rounds since cleaning.
Cliff’s Notes: In short, MSS’s Copper/Lead Destroyer is very effective. Zero question about that.
More detailed findings and experimental procedure:
C/L-D not as strong as Sweet’s by a mile nor is it as strong as Wipe-Out as a copper remover but it’s a lot more pleasant to use than Sweet’s and less messy than Wipe-Out. This is about removing copper and copper fouling is hard to remove well without damaging the barrel steel. You either get mechanical action which is by definition damaging to the bore or you get chemical action which may be damaging to the bore. Bore damage can be dependent on the length of time of exposure to chemical agents and some of them are really nasty for everyone involved.
To start I took a G21 barrel that had been belled just in front of the chamber by a squib. It had previously had Carbon Destroyer run through it and then was soaked overnight (26 hours) in Copper/Lead Destroyer, hosed out and stored. I ran some Wipe-Out into it and gave it 15 minutes to soak and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch. Then I ran some Sweet’s in it and let that soak for 5 minutes and pushed a patch through. Zero color change on the patch.
Ok, that’s the null result I was expecting. The barrel was clearly clean of copper to begin with but you don’t know the state of fouling before the 26 hour soak. Could have been a lot, could have been a little, could have been none for all you know, right?
Now to find the more interesting results. I took a factory Savage .308 Win barrel that I’d abused and not cleaned in literally years. It had at least a couple hundred rounds put through it before it got yanked and set aside. I started by running patch of Sweet’s through the barrel without running a brush through it, hoping that the carbon that stayed behind would protect some of the copper from the Sweet’s to serve as an indicator later. It came out with gooey gobs of blue on the patch with no soak at all, just applied and patched out. I immediately took the barrel outside and hosed it out for a solid couple minutes to keep the Sweet’s from finishing the job. I plugged the breech with a .45acp case and filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and gave it 2 hours to soak. After the soak I ran a patch through it a couple times (remember, no color change on the patches, C/L-D doesn’t do that) and then went and hosed it out. Now I needed to see if there was any copper still in there so I took the Wipe-Out and ran that in the barrel and gave it a 20 minute soak. After pushing a patch through what I found were traces of blue streaking on the patch and plenty of black and brown. Not much blue but enough to tell me that the carbon was in fact protecting the copper. There wasn’t enough copper coming out to make a good finish up to the experiment on that barrel so I reset the experiment by virtue of moving on to the .223 barrel.
The .223 barrel started with at least 200 rounds since the last even partial cleaning so it got a thorough carbon removal with Carbon Destroyer. When patches wrapped around a bore brush came out without any black or brown on them, I called that done. I put a fired case in the breech, closed the bolt and then filled the bore with Copper/Lead Destroyer and let it soak for 2 hours. Then I pushed a pair of patches through which came out not much different than they went in. Now to see if the C/L-D worked I ran a patch of sweet’s down the bore, gave it a solid 3 minutes to soak and pushed another patch though looking for color change and got NONE AT ALL. That was a null result I did not honestly expect. I expected to find some copper remaining, I mean Sweet’s is as aggressive as it gets. But no.
What’s that all mean? Leave the Copper/Lead Destroyer to soak a while and it works as thoroughly as Sweet’s or Wipe-Out. I really like using C/L-D way more than Sweet’s. I can’t even stand opening the bottle on that cat piss smelling Sweet’s. I actually really like Wipe-Out too and will continue to use it at the range because it’s super easy to deal with there. At home though, I think I’ve found my new cleaning product suite. All the chemicals I need are now finally not unpleasant.
Modern Spartan Systems – Copper/Lead Destroyer: No bad smell. A detergent-y smell similar to cold bluing solution is what it reminds me of most. The directions say you can leave in barrel safely for many hours, even overnight. I left it in a G21 barrel for 26 hours with no adverse affect noted. MUST use a carbon solvent prior to applying for it to be properly effective. Modern Spartan’s carbon remover works great. Getting C/L-D to stay wet in the barrel was another story. It dried quickly in my low humidity area. I eventually stuffed a fired case in the breech, stood the barrel up and filled the bore on rifles. On pistols it was easier to soak a narrow strip of paper towel in it and thread that down the bore and let it sit that way overnight. Directions say 3-5 minutes of soak. I got best results on heavy fouling after 2 hours. No color change on the patch so it’s a little hard to “know” when you’re done.
Wipe-Out: It’s got a smell but nothing like Sweet’s. Can leave in barrel overnight, no ammonia. It’s a foam that expands so some will end up in your action and it’ll probably drip out of the muzzle so, a little messy to use. Patch’s change color to blue if copper is present. Works on carbon and copper. Usually 15 minutes is more than sufficient as a soak time.
Sweet’s 7.62: Super strong ammonia smell. Do not leave in barrel longer than necessary, clean residue off skin and gun thoroughly immediately after use. Known to be hard on steel. Must use carbon remover prior for full effectiveness.
I have video and all that jazz but it’s not very interesting TV. It’s just me slowly, methodically and painfully boringly working out the surprisingly obvious. On the upside, MSS’s stuff works like a dream so far. I can officially endorse the Copper and Lead Destroyer and the Carbon Destroyer because I have proven beyond any doubt that they work as advertised.
Now about that Accuracy Oil….
You know plenty about the New Zealand shooting except you probably are looking for the video and can’t find it. Everyone wants to pull shit down so the people can’t see. That’s not how information works. You can’t stop the signal so, here you go!
This is extremely graphic. I don’t have this here to glorify anything. The guy is a madman and a murderer. Madmen are just like everyone else, they have a breaking point. Aussies and Kiwi’s have been mass importing foreigners whom they refuse to push assimilation with so you end up with a fractured society. Fractures in diverse societies lead to slaughter. Slaughter comes from madmen responding to societal fracture. That’s how history has always played out. Return to assimilation, reduce the rate of importation, quit pandering to medieval Arabian tribalism and you might see things peel back to a less militant level.
Doctor, heal thyself!
You’ll have to download it. Nobody will host it.
I’ll just leave this here. You decide for you.
I wonder if anyone managed to think for just a second something like, “We take a bunch of guys and teach them to play by very strict rules. Then we let them self-separate from everyone that they learned to play by the rules with and tell them that they no longer have to play by all the rules all the time, that there’s now a completely different set of rules which are somewhat cloudy and to, in any case, use good judgement which we don’t teach them how to do. Then we’re surprised when they don’t.”
SpecOps guys start as raw recruits just like everyone else. They’re broken down and built back up the way the military wants them to be through the first couple years of service. At some point they decide they want to put in a package and go through selection. That action, putting in the package, is the soldier himself saying to everyone else in his platoon, “I’m different to all of you.”
Special forces simply cannot be held to the same standards as the rank and file military. They play by very different rules and in very different places. You’ll never see a buck private gate guard with long hair and a fierce beard wearing a pakol hat, sweat stained kameez and OD green dungarees but on a Delta operator in Afghanistan that’s not abnormal. Strict regulations about things like uniform appearance, hair length and hygiene are meant to be 100% adhered to so that every one of the prols in its ranks can know how to behave. It’s called a uniform for a damned reason. Special forces like uniforms too but their uniform could be more accurately referred to as a costume since they wear whatever is most helpful, not necessarily what someone else tells them to.
If people stopped thinking of the special forces as part of the Army/AirForce/Navy/Marine Corp and started to think of them more as part of SOCOM. At the same time stop thinking of SOCOM as being anything like or even part of the regular military. Much like a coral snake mimics, they may be externally a little difficult to tell apart but they’re very little alike in any important way.
So what about special forces guys going out and getting caught up in very highly publicized bits of naughty-no-no’s from rape and murder to drug dealing, robbery, espionage and any of the many possibilities for moral turpitude. You told them they were different. That the old rules didn’t apply to them. You then told them that you’ll keep all of their day to day actions in SOCOM as state secrets. Well, it’s pretty damned hard to charge and convict someone of a crime if the circumstances and even the evidence and the names of then people involved are all classified.
We built the metaphoric room we’re in (our nation, it’s laws and culture, etc…) and we’ve built all kinds of things into the room to make living in it more comfortable like economies and legal systems and policies based on the idea that that which is self-evidently true is true and that if you add 1 to 1 you will have 2. It’s a room that very well describes the needs of the people that are in it. We then took some of the people in the room and promised nobody would know what they did no matter how good it was. Those people would naturally figure, “Well if you won’t tell them about the cool stuff I did, I bet you keep the evil stuff even more secret.” and bang. You’ve now given all of the motivation needed for a morally flexible mind to go ahead and engage in some questionably to flatly immoral behavior.
When I was in 5th grade my school had a problem. Me and 5 other kids who were all in the same grade and the same class in a small rural elementary school were at the time what they called “gifted” and no teacher could keep up with our rates of information consumption while doing a good job at teaching the rest of the students because there were a bunch of us. There’s a difference in dealing with a 100 IQ average kid and a 150 IQ prodigy. Usually a teacher can deal with 1 out of 35 students being gifted and still give everyone the amount of individual attention they need to thrive. Put 6 of those needy little jerks in one classroom and it’s a different story. Up till the 5th grade it hadn’t been much of a practical issue. We had a teacher at the school who had trained specifically to work with gifted students and as we went from 2nd to 3rd and 4th grade so did that teacher so we all stayed in his class. Still, by 5th grade we started into levels of mathematics and literature that were otherwise not available to typical elementary school students and were years ahead. What to do?
My school’s principle came up with a neat idea: Let’s use the money the school just got from the newly started California Lottery and buy a bunch of computers and put those brainy little bastards in front of the computers. See if they can outrun electrons.
So every day we’d all arrive at class and do the morning math race. The math race was a daily set of 25 or more mixed equations and word problems that everyone would solve individually as fast as they could. The 6 of us brainiacs simply TROUNCED the rest of the class at math racing, usually finishing the whole set of problems before most people were done with the first two. We finished so fast partly because as soon as all 6 of us were done we could go to the computer lab and spend the rest of our day there learning at our own pace. None of us wanted to be the last to finish the math race and we got to a point where the difference in finish time from the first of us to the last was only a few seconds on any normal day and it was inconsistent who was the first or last to finish so we must have been hitting a physical limitation of how fast the 10 year old human hand can write legibly.
We started that year running through a whole educational curriculum for the 5th grade and 6th grade. It became quickly apparent that they were going to need more lesson packs if we were going to be kept occupied longer than 2 weeks. In fact all of us finished the math for the 5th and 6th grade before the end of the 2nd day and we were ready to explore algebra, trig, geometry and calculus. The school, particularly the principal, reacted quickly and immediately bought the whole suite which went up to grade level 12.9. I asked what that “grade level 12.9” meant and was told that 12.9 meant that you’d completed enough to have done a normal mainstream education based on the standards of the day to complete high school and go through the first year of community college. I was super excited. I don’t know if I’ve ever been more excited. That was a LOT of knowledge which I had been so far forced to consume in frustratingly tiny fragments and my hungry little mind devoured the new lessons ferociously. So did the others’. Only 2 of us didn’t finish the entire set of curricula through to the grade 12.9 level before the end of the year. I finished in May. Nathan was the only one to beat me. God he was smart. We started to be treated differently by students and staff. Every student wanted to be part of that group and all the staff let us get away with figurative murder. Peter, Samantha, Jenny, Jenny, Nathan and I simply crushed it, our egos got pretty big and we got cliquey and developed small superiority complexes that as far as I can tell lasted the rest of our lives.
Nowadays I’m a sysadmin by trade. Why? Well, because I don’t like to be forced to play by the rules. I like to be able to suspend those rules. By that I mean, a normal computer user in a company is restricted in what they can do to and with that computer. They don’t get to install packages or tinker with fundamental settings or directly access the hardware. A systems administrator has the ability to simply give themselves a desired privilege if they need one. If I want to read your email, I can. I won’t want to and 25 years of professional nerd-ing later I never have without being directed to by a superior but, I can if I want to. I tried using computers as part of work as a regular user and that’s about as frustrating to me as a thing could be. I don’t know how today’s digital proletariat can deal with it. If I have to ask for what I need… Ha!
I’m a little surprised that the Pentagon doesn’t see this. It’s pretty damned evident and predictable to the rest of us. If you take people who are part of a group and then start calling some subset of them “elite” then you’ve separated them enough that people will look at them differently and start treating them differently and before long you have a group that’s actually really different and can never go back to being part of the proletariat. If you outgroup someone, don’t act all surprised when they don’t respect the rules and culture of your group.
Nothing about them surprises me. Primitiveness of culture, undisciplined minds, unstinting ability to believe promiscuously and all of that supported and exhorted by a religion which was created by and because a guy couldn’t stop pissing off his neighbors and had a penchant for very little girls. It’s a culture of perversion.
We’ve taken over the lead in petroleum product exports from Saudi Arabia. We should now Join OPEC and seek to have our representative take over as Secretary General of OPEC. Despite the fact that they have an egalitarian one-country one-vote thing going, the fact of the matter is that the biggest producer ends up with a lot of influence and sway.
OPEC is an international cartel that routinely has used anti-competitive practices of production manipulation and price fixing in order to prevent any competition in the world of petroleum extraction and distribution. Worse, because of the economic realities, the current members of OPEC routinely run over their quotas which destroys the supply and demand reality of the price. They will often overburdern the market with oil supplies but because the price is determined by the market based on how much each country commits to producing (and no more than that) and not on how much it actually produces day to day there’a lack of parity to how any other market works which is supply vs. demand. That there is pure market manipulation. Consumers therefore are not able to get a fair shake and that has dangerous knock-on effects to the global economy.
If the USA were to join OPEC we would then be able to act as both a stabilizing force by forcing sanctions upon production cap cheats, implement enforcement and monitoring technologies that add transparency regarding production to the market to restore the supply vs. demand relationship that has been tossed aside and as a force to ultimately destroy OPEC the cartel from the inside whilst leaving OPEC the industry regulator to mature into a real thing.
As soon as they have to actually play by the rules instead of just saying they do, the member nations’ loyalty to OPEC will fracture and their own individual national interests come to dominate. They will soon find that they no longer have any benefit from membership and OPEC will collapse as a cartel and come to be what it should have been from the start, more of an industry regulating body similar to AMA and the bar associations of the states.
What do you think? Should the USA join OPEC?
See below for highlights. Click the link below if you’re in for the full read. You’re not missing anything either way.
I’m certain that every second of this video shows crimes against humanity. The most enlightening comment on the video is also the scariest. Watch first then scroll down for that gem of a quote.
“if you check the restaurants twitter, the ingredients are macaroni and cheese, mayonnaise, canned corn, and a pinch of olives. They also have a dessert pizza that has chocolate sauce, gum drops, and twizzlers. I honestly think Seal Team 6 killed the wrong dude… they need to come back and wack this pizza chef for his crimes against humanity.”
Well, it happened on a school campus right?